Hornblower vs. Jack Aubrey

There is a very good reason for the episodic feel of the Hornblower series: Hornblower was a pulp hero! Really. The first publications were as serials in magazine format, at least up to Commodore. I'm not certain after that.

Haven't been here for a while, and i am reviving an old post. Sorry!
I been looking for the information that led me to say that POB was asked to create a series to follow Hornblower after Forrester's death. I cannot find the source of that info, and wish to withdraw that suggestion. The timing etc is right, but I cannot find that piece of information and apologize! All that being said, one of the things I like about O'Brien is it like sailing in real time. The minutia of everyday like is examined in detail, the odd occurrences like battles, given short shrift. Many happening off stage, and or explained as part of a story told in a pub. O'Brien also has a great sense of humor, he refers to Surprise's "cut away forefoot" but that was a feature of racing sailboats in the 40 & 50, not ships built in the 1790's. And gackling your cables? really!

lou

malchya wrote:There is a very good reason for the episodic feel of the Hornblower series: Hornblower was a pulp hero! Really. The first publications were as serials in magazine format, at least up to Commodore. I'm not certain after that.

Really? In 'The Hornblower Companion' Forester describes the genesis of Hornblower and the writing of the earliest books [The Happy Return and Ship Of The Line] but mentions nothing of magazines.

I have occasionally seen a reference to this though never in enough detail to make it clear. He was a long established novelist long before Hornblower. I think it more likely that (if it did happen) the novels preceded the magazines on a similar basis to the way modern biographies are sometimes serialised in a national newspaper. It would get them in front of a wider audience and increase sales of the book to those who didn't want to wait for the next episode

I have also heard it said that he was approached to write Master and Commander based on the strength of his earlier naval novels, but I have also heard O'Brian himself tell a different story in his interviews. As with many things in this recluse's life, this detail is a bit of a mystery with some fabricated history floating around and building rival myths.

Speak of "getting to the party late". I've just read over this thread twice and must say that it's about the the richest I've seen so far on this site. While I've read both series twice and listened to each once (audiobook), I've never considered the indepth analysis I've been privy to here. So thanks to all for enlightening me.

While I won't re-state those points I totally agree with, many of which I had never even considered, I will speak briefly to the "image" of these two main characters.

My "bona fides" being almost 35 years of military service (with the first 5 years spent "before the mast" so to speak). I have "met" and served both with and under the officers represented (so well) by both characters, and yes they do exist (and have before and always will). Both can be effective leaders, but one (Hornblower) remains aloof and alone while the other (Aubrey) is not only "approachable" but truly "loves his men professionally" (both officers and enlisted) and this is apparent to them in a way that commands both their loyalty and affection. He is not trying to be "popular", he is just "leading" in his own style and his men respect him. While Hornblower remains "aloof and alone" he is still an effective leader and his men "trust him" whether in battle or in storm to see them through "the worst".

Both of these leaders are today, called by their men: "The Old Man". I guess back in the AOS, they just called them "The Captain". The development of these characters is a significant part of what has, and continues to draw me to HNF.

Thanks for reviving this thread. I do wish Medusa had remained and been more active. I understand how RL can prvent it and can only hope he finds time to participate again.

Medusa wrote: Historically Capt. Hamilton was close friends with his Surgeon M'Millan (?). Hamilton commanded the Surprise when the Hermione was retaken. He installed the 36 gun main mast. M'Millen commanded one of the boats in the Hermione cutting out expedition. And just to add pointless arcane facts: Surprise was one of the ships shelling Ft Mc Henry, leading to the Star Spangled Banner. It wasn't OUR Surprise, being the follow on vessel built in 1912, but interesting non the less. Anyway, there is historical as well as fictional background for Captain-Surgeon friendship.

Lou

Captain Frederick Marryat often includes an inept surgeon as a foil to the more serious nautical characters. The naturalist surgeon who is always misunderstanding the real world (as sailors see it), is a useful tool for explaining things to the reader who is a noob, and providing comic relief to those who know something about the subject. POB stole a lot of things from Marryat -- Jack Aubrey escaping France disguised as a bear is not unlike Peter Simple escaping France by stilt-walking while disguised as a girl, for example.

We can go back even further and see a captain-surgeon special friendship in Tobias Smollett's Adventures of Roderick Random, albeit those were two very minor characters and the friendship was not the heroic stuff we expect from our contemporary heroes.

It makes sense that the captain and surgeon would be friends; the surgeon is not in the captain's direct chain of command, so the prohibition on 'fraternizing' with the lower ranks does not apply; their areas of responsibility and expertise is so different that there is little chance of overlap. The surgeon, who handles life and death decisions, who confronts blood and death and must feel responsible for the men he loses, has a unique position to understand the weight on a captain's shoulders. Further, the surgeon and the captain are each highly skilled specialists who have similar skills: intelligence, proper administration of men and supplies, and a good education combining book knowledge with practical experience.